tv QA CSPAN December 22, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm EST
they loved about each other. the thing about both my parents is they were sensitive and noticed everything. the entire world they saw were the shades of gray and no black and white. they would notice things that might make others sad or affect others emotionally that no one else saw. they would say see that person? that person is suffering inside. at first glance it looked like the person was just like anyone else but when they said here is what to look for, see how their eyes are moving, they noticed everything and that was at the bottom of what made do you noti everything? >> guest: well, i do but not as
much as my parents. >> c-span: you got d's and f's in high school? >> reporter: i was 606 out of 666 in my high school in north brook, illinois. the safety schools others were applying for were my first choices and i didn't get into those. the guidance counselor in high school advised me not to bother with college or community college but enroll in the peace core. i was naive and didn't know what the peace core was. it was looking bad around age 18. >> c-span: what was the problem with the high school and the kids in high school? >> guest: i went from a middle class neighborhood to an upper class neighborhood so i didn't
fit in. there was a dysfunction happening at home that was difficult on me emotionally. all of the factors came together and it didn't make for a productive four years. >> c-span: was the dysfunction between your mother and mother? >> guest: yes, they had a troubled marriage. and i think my mom was suffering a little emotionally at the time. it wasn't the most stable high school. but i don't think there is anybody in the history of high school who did as poorly academically as i was but was in no trouble. didn't do drugs, drink beer, or miss school. i was just hurting. >> c-span: you went to the university of wisconsin and studied and went to harvard law and practiced law and didn't
like it. then you got into the writing business. one of the first thing that got my attention was my favorite teacher. a piece for esquire. >> guest: that is right. it was about a teacher of mine who was a kind, gentle man who seemed to see the loneliness of people walking around. and there were many lonely students and that felt dis disconnected. we were lonely in the world. he noticed everything, too. he was very kind to the lost souls of this school where everyone seemed to have it made. people gravitated toward him and trusted him. he wasn't just my biology teacher but the athletic trainer at school and i would see him taping up members of the football team in the locker room and things like that.
he didn't come to school one day and there was an announcement he wasn't going to be there but on all of the radio and tv they were announcing his arrest for the murder and rape of a son of a chicago police man. as it turned out, this wasn't his first kidnapping and abduction. he had a sophisticated way of picking up hitchhikers. he tried to stop himself and resigned from the post at the high school because he intended to go after his students. i thought about him and remembered him fondly and wondered how that could happen to such a kind and gentle man. i went back and found him in prison and asked him all of the questions i have been wondering for 20 years. >> c-span: what was he like? >> guest: as gentle and remo e
remorseful. he explained terrible things went wrong with him. he had a rare genetic disorder with an extra chromosome and developed in some ways as a woman. he knew what he was doing. knew he was worse and worse and planned to take himself into the wilderness he could never do these things again. but the thing got away from him and he was finally got and sentenc sentenced. >> c-span: i think i calculated he would be 71. is he still alive? >> guest: i believe he is still alive. i saw him twice in prison and after the second visit he cut off the contact. but it wasn't until i learned that one of the students he had his eye on was me. >> c-span: did you feel he was after you?
>> guest: no, it felt like with him it was safe and without him it wasn't safe. >> c-span: you are the story teller, what was the process you wanted to write about this for esquire magazine. >> guest: the editors had never written a story before and whether i told them about it they thought it was compelling. my involvement was important but i thought good writers should be like baseball players and invisible. so i took the personal part out of the story. and my editor, mark warren, said that was the most important part. put it back in. when i put myself back in that is when it came together and resinated with people. >> c-span: what kind of
recognition did you get after that? your first book in 2004. was that related? >> guest: it was the first magazine article i published that was a finalist for an award. i got attention from agents and interest. and that was the start of it. >> c-span: what did your wife think? >> guest: i used to be a lawyer and had better prospects than i did in the world of writing but she was behind me. >> c-span: did you have any rough times as writer in 2000 where you didn't have money to live on? was it difficult for you? >> guest: it was hard to live on but i made a vow i would nut put the golden handcuffs put on me. a lot of people i went to law
school with vowed they would not make their living as a lawyer. the thing we talked about was don't get the mortgage. don't get the bmw. don't bury yourself in debt. the one thing i am so grateful i stuck to was that promise. i didn't have high overhead. i had a wife saying it is no bargain if you come home unhappy every day. >> your first book sold 67000 books. how many now? >> guest: i think it is closing in on a million. >> c-span: let's bring the audience up to date. let's slow a little interview from 2004. >> guest: a friend told me about the story originally. it sounded too unbelievable to
be true. two new jersey recreational divers find a virgin loss german boat off the new jersey coast. i could not believe it. it started from there. >> c-span: once somebody give you the idea what did you do then? >> guest: i got on the phone to the divers and asked them could this be true and they said not only is it true it is more than that. i asked if i might come out and she them. they agreed and i was on my way. john shatterton and ritchie coaler were the divers who made the amazing discovery. >> guest: i had a visit to a doctor who said you were one step away from diabetes. my dad died from being overweight and diabetic. this was about five or six years ago that i set out to lose the weight. i had two small boys of my own and remember how painful it was
to watch my dog die in front of me unable to do anything about this weight problem. i didn't want to inflict that on my family. >> c-span: is mom alive? >> guest: no, she died about a year and a half ago. i am grateful she lived to see me have success. >> c-span: what impact did the million seller have on our life? >> guest: it gave me enough financial security that gave me a chance to write other books that interested me. i didn't need to follow up with another nautical adventure. i was able to take a risk in my next project. it allowed me to take my time as well. so if i need to find just the right story or do something over again i didn't feel pressured to rush it out. that is a very big gift for a writer.
>> c-span: is everything settled down now and you don't have to worry? >> guest: my wife, who is an attorney, and i made one promise in life don't marry an attorney, she contributes to the family as well and she found her career just about that time, too. >> c-span: one of the characters ends up being in the current book. but the second book you wrote was "crashing through" and here is a little from 2007. >> host: how did you find mike may and how old was he? >> guest: he was about 50-51. the cases in the literature only mentioned he gained vision from a revolutionary stem cell surgery. i had to know what this person weren
went through and what their life was like. i found him in davis, california and called him. i was ready to hear someone who sounded to be on the verge of suicide. all of these cases are filled with reports of suicidal thoughts, clawing at the eye, reverting back to dark rooms and blindfolds. in the second case, the person was so disappointed in the visual world they gave up and died. the person on the other end of the phone sounded busy. i introduced myself, had to know his life and he told me politely no thanks. but i didn't give up and he did. >> c-span: mike may couldn't see and you told the story of him being operated on and learning
to see. have you been in touch with him? >> guest: i saw him friday in san francisco. his eyes work perfectly. but his brain is always the issue. he can sink free throw after free throw or ride a bike down the street. but if you don't tell him step don't stop off a 20 story floor balcony. >> c-span: in 2007, you say he couldn't see faces. can he see them now? >> guest: no, he cannot see them any better than the first time around. if his wife were across the table from him he would not know her unless she spoke. he has facial blindness because that part of his brain doesn't work. his eyes see them but the faces have no meaning.
>> c-span: how many books did that sell? >> guest: i don't know the numbers. it didn't do what "shadow divers" did but i loved the book. it meant a lot to a lot of people. >> c-span: we talked about movies being made. did a movie get made of your book? >> guest: no, they are still working on the "shadow divers" movie 10-11 years later. i thought it would take about 10 months to be in holiday seeing the premier. ten years later they are still developing "shadow divers." >> c-span: what about "crashing through" is sthat that going to be a movie? >> guest: i don't think so. in the end it didn't work out. >> c-span: let's go to the new
book "pirate hunters." i want to ask you why senator john mccain endorsed this book? >> guest: he is a man of adventure and a man who appreciates risk takers and brave souls. >> c-span: does we have the same publisher? >> guest: i don't think so. >> c-span: did you ask him to do it? >> guest: i didn't. he endorsed "shadow divers" as well. he had the same publicist so that is how then. >> c-span: let's start the process by looking at part of the trailer. >> the only pirate to fight the british navy. most pirates ran from the
british navy. he actually fired the first shot. i was working on another book idea and the phone rang. when i picked up the person on the other end of the line didn't introduce himself and he just said do you like pirates. i knew the voice. it was robert kurson. >> joseph bannister was a respected gentlemen, local sea captain and one day he stole his own ship, golden fleece, and became a pirate. >> c-span: what books were you working on before this? >> guest: i was working on a military story about heroes. i am drawn to heroic stories and men at turning point in their lives. it was a vietnam story.
some of the pieces were missing and i found myself yearning for the kind of adventure i wrote about the first time. the phone rang and a screenwriter couldn't have put it together. >> c-span: when he called what did you do? >> guest: i tried to make excuses in the beginning. he said if you like pirates come to new jersey. since seven years old i have loved new jersey. it was christmas time, there was presents to wrap and places to go. but one thing i learned is if there is a window in life you go. so i packed up and got in the car and headed east on i-94 to new jersey to hear the story. >> c-span: how long did you spend with him before you said i have to look again? >> guest: i was in this steak house for 20 minutes when he said he was going to tell me a
treasure hunting story and that got me there already. but it wasn't until we were thrown out because the place closed and he said we will tell you first how we found a golden age pirateship. that is all i needed to hear. he said we will tell you the rest in the dominican republic. but i knew i was in the right place. >> c-span: here is more from the trailer to bring us up to date. >> this was the riskiest thing a human being could do in the 1680s. if you turn pirate and were caught you were going to hang. >> if people learned who he was and what he did you look at him in a completely different light. finding a genuine golden age pirateship is the single rarest thing you can find in the water and maybe the world. the ship was nowhere to be
found. the question became where was it? >> c-span: trying to solve those kinds of puzzles and mysteries is an irresistable challenge. >> x marks the space that you searched and there is nothing there. >> c-span: one thing that changes was in the first book was there a video like this? >> guest: no such thing back then. >> c-span: has that made a difference? >> guest: it has. they make them like movie trailers and that is the language of a lot of people. they did a compelling job. >> c-span: those two men -- where are they? what do they do? this isn't obviously all they do. >> guest: it is now. they are shipwreck hunters. they were at cross roads doing lots of deep water explorations and both of them saw friends die before them many times. they were at a crossroads what do you now. one was approaching 50 and the
other 40. they ran out of challenges and were at this crucial point in their lives and they decided they would go find old spanish treasureshi ships. that is what they dedicated their live to. in treasure hunting it turns out bad for the explorer. they go broke and set out and don't find out what they are looking for. >> c-span: where do they live now? >> guest: staten island and boca raton. >> c-span: where did you meet the one with less hair? >> guest: a few years ago. one thing he was huge and powerful and he said he was one of the highest paid body
guardss. and secondally he picked up the four figure check and i was happy about that. >> c-span: why did they call you? >> guest: this was only the second pirate ship found and identified deserved something more than a telling of a press release. they are so rare. to identify one positively is almost impossible. they wanted the story told in a big way. >> c-span: when was the golden fleece, the ship, sunk? >> guest: that is not the best name for a pirate ship. it was sunk in 1686 in a battle with two navy warships. the governor of jamaica sent them after the captain joseph bannister. it was said to be tipped over on the side of the beach so the
crew could clean the hall and that is when the war ships arrived and did battle but they could never expect to find bannister and his crew. >> c-span: the word careening is in your book a lot. explain what that is. >> guest: the guy said the only reason they even got close to the golden fleece was she was on the careen and they had to explain with wooden sailing ships barnacles grew on the hall of the ship and they would eat through and slow down the ship. pirate ships had to be fast and clean. so to do that you had to beach them, turn them on their side and scrub the hall down. but that left the sailing ship very vulnerable. >> c-span: the book has several different stories. let's start with the personal stories. first, we will go with mattera and the mafia.
>> guest: yes, he grew up in staten island and was the son of a butcher shop worker. he was surrounded by a lot of the people who came across and did business with the gambino crime family. there was always mafia in the area. he learned the life of the streets. he was a street smart kid. he had his own small money lending operation. he owned nightclub he was too young by law to enter. it could have been he made a wrong turn and chose a life of crime or organized crime. he had a variety interesting swerve as a young man. >> c-span: how did that happen? >> guest: i think he realized if he got mixed up with organized crime it would not end well. he could see around him, even though he was never a part of
it, but he could see the people who were almost always ended up in a bad place whether it was buried in the sand flats, or in jail, or beat up, it seemed most often to end poorly. he did what nobody, especially himself, expected he would do and that is become a beat cop. he went the other way. >> c-span: you have names in there that are familiar. sammy the bull, john mot -- was that his friend? how close did he get to that? >> guest: his best friend was the son of a high ranking gambino ranking member who was gunned down outside spark's steak house. he knew the players. it would have been easy enough to him to get in the world. >> c-span: the background on john chatterton.
where did you meet him? >> guest: i met him when i heard about the shadow divers. i was told about the story and it seemed too unbelievable to be true. as i said, i called him out of the blew and asked him if he would answer my own questions. it seemed to him he answered every question that could be asked. but the one i never heard answered was the only one i cared about and that is why would you risk so much? three people died over three years. chatterton lost his marriage, almost all of his money and came close to dying himself and it was all for a three digit number and at best a footnote to history. no one explained why someone wasted so much for so little. chatterton and his partner went
on to become host of a tv series called deep sea detectives with 57 episodes airing nationally. you could make the argument he is the most famous living scuba diver in the world. >> c-span: you said earlier that john shared in the prophfiprofi your first book of "shadow divers." did you do this for this book? >> guest: we did not. >> c-span: why not? >> guest: we were in different positions. when i met him he was working as an under water construction diver. we are at different places in our lives financially and professionally where we didn't need that. >> c-span: joseph bannister, who was he and what role does he play in the book? >> guest: i think if the english historians had their choice we would not any anything about him.
impossible escape and went on a true pirating rampage for two years. it wasn't until the royal navy pinned him in and he defeated not one ship, but two impossible, that his legend was made. >> c-span: video of tracy bodin and we will show this and we will find out what role he plays. >> what is it like when you discover treasure that might be
from a sunken pirate ship? >> i have been doing it so much. the breath speeds up, the heart races, you know you are the first one on the planet seeing it. doesn't matter how much money you have. i am excited about it today as i was 30 years ago. >> c-span: did you meet him? >> guest: i did. he is one of the great treasure hunters of all time. he salvaged all three and he is a legend of the business. >> c-span: what is a galleon? >> guest: a spanish treasure ship. >> c-span: how much does the government of these countries play? how does that work?
>> guest: the dominican republic, where the golden fleece occurs, was one of the only handful of coauntries that allowed private pirate ships to work but they would ship the funds 50-50. you might remember the most valuable shipwreck found to date is worth about $600 million in treasure. the state of florida and the government battled the finder all the way to the supreme court where fischer finally prevailed but it was years and millions of dollars to claim what was his. >> c-span: if you go beyond the
three miles what happens? >> guest: it goes out to 12 hours. once you are in international waters they had a better shot. not everyone alerts people when they find something. the dominican republic leases rights and they allowed them to work in the waters. >> c-span: when did they begin look for the golden fleece? >> guest: i believe they began in 2008 and finished a little over a year later. >> c-span: there was a retired admiral in this. >> guest: he married a dominican republic woman and her father was a retired navy member
who gave them a lot of information and he founded warnings, important warnings, that the days of private treasure hunting might be coming to a close. and the dominican republic government, like many others, might be considering signing on to agreements or otherwise prohibiting private treasure hunters. the clock was ticking. but they promised never to let anything get in the way of the treasure hunt. they had to do it fast before they were kicked out and before the treasure disappeared forever possibly. >> c-span: where does the money come from for all of this? >> guest: they get investors or call them backers to fund the exploration. it is expensive to go out of the country and hire a crew and buy the equipment. i think they spent a couple hundred thousands on sonar and other items. they spent $25,000 on custom
software, an 80,000 under water roving vehicle. this isn't the average person going out on the weekend looking in water up to their knees. this is expensive. >> c-span: why did they want to do this? where did they get the tip? >> guest: it is my theory his love of history saved him and caused him to go the right way in life. when he married this dominican women he pulled out books from the archives, some which haven't been opened for centuries, he believed if a person looked hard enough and invested his money and heart, he could find a treasure ship of his own. they had a chance encounter after 25 years and he told him that information and he was in immediately. >> c-span: when you were here
for "shadow divers" his marriage was fallling apart. what happened? >> guest: he had a successful marriage to another woman that indured until recently is what i am told. it was a good look at how difficult this life can be on a relationship. these guys who go diving and searching especially dangerous shipwrecks you never know if they are coming back. >> c-span: how do they die? >> guest: they will panic and come up for air too fast, usually from getting a case of the bends. >> c-span: you heard the stories
from your father and then tear took up history at eight and you came together to search each other. >> guest: i think it is true of tracy as well. he is a man who is in love with stories. if you go treasure hunting or shipwreck hunting only for the loot you will not last long pause you will die on the ship or give up. you have to be in love with stories and the idea of these historical figures coming to life before you otherwise you will not stay with it. >> c-span: since you started writing and researching this how many days were you out of your home town of chicago doing research? >> guest: i went to the dominican republic twice for a week or week and a half at time. out to florida, new jersey, and new york for several weeks.
>> he was absolutely crucial to the whole putting together to the story. >> c-span: what are the chances he would live in chicago? >> guest: i tried to calculate that and it goes out to several powers. >> c-span: give us an idea of more on what he told you. >> guest: he did research on port royal, jamaica and joseph bannister woo did this thing of stealing his own ship and getting away. but he uncovered the journal of an eyewitness who was aboard one of the royal navy ships that fought bannister. he had an eyewitness account of the battle and without that none of this could have been put together and found and identified. finding the eyewitness is such a
rare thing to have. it was a literate man, a mathematician and beautiful writer, who kept writing and drawing as a gift. >> c-span: how has your writing changed since it began? >> guest: i try to get out of the way. i am trying to be more like the baseball umpire. i don't know how affective i am but i try. i try to remind myself to show not tell. i didn't know what it meant. i am guilty of it. but trying to be less guilty. that is mostly what is on my mind. >> c-span: how many drafts did you do on a book look this? >> guest: probably about three or four. i spend the bulk of my time structuring the book. that takes me more time than it does to write. i put together the shape and
that tore it apart many more. >> c-span: you have been on a book tour and been where? >> guest: up and down the east coast and then milwaukee, michigan, florida for four stops, california for four stops, and now here. >> c-span: what questions are you asked here that seem to come all of the time? >> guest: it was fascinating. there is a bowl of food still preserved. the treasure didn't matter in the end to those people. it was about the rarity and historic nature of the pirate
ship. >> c-span: how much did tracy raise and why was he involved? >> guest: he really deserves a lot of credit for knowing about the story of joseph bannister and the golden fleece and wanting to get the ship. but he put these two to work on the ship because as rare as a spanish galleon is a pirate ship is much more so rare. it wasn't by comparison to the treasure hunts -- hunters. >> c-span: you point out tracy was wrong about where the ship was? >> guest: well not just tracy but maps. they labelled an island as bannister island.
everyone thought the wreck would be found here. they were wrong. if the guys went out and found this in two weeks like expected there wouldn't be much story to tell. it seems all of history is wrong. the question with "shadow divers" was where do you look and they had at a stop looking for the ship and bannister, the heart of the man, or they would never find it. >> c-span: anybody in the u.s. government keep track of where shipwrecks are around the world? >> guest: that is a great question. a pirate ship they would have little about. they never filled manifest and when they went missing no governments of their time went missing. i am sure there are agencies and hist historians who keep track of ships but whether they do i am much less certain.
>> c-span: do you have any idea how many shipwrecks are around the world? >> guest: i don't think anybody knows but they are greater than the number. they call to these guys and there is a lot of them. >> c-span: if we knew how many people were looking around the world how many would that number be? >> guest: if you are looking for treasure and treasure ships that is a lower number than shipwrecks in general. part of the reason is because the governments make a lot of regulations that prohibit the salvage of the shipwreck once you find it. i think it is a small community. deep water shipwrecks are even smaller in community because the people capable of diving them is a small percentage. >> c-span: we have a little more video showing the things you have been talking about from the trailer and then we will come back and continue. >> what started as an interesting idea manifested into
an all out obsession. >> we had to think like bannister would have been thinking from the beginning. that was the key to finding the wreck. >> we uncovered the whole of the golden fleece and we took a collective breath. never have we seen anything like that. it was unbelievable. >> the things they started pulling off with weapons, knives, daggers, and beads, tell you you are looking at a golden age ship. >> it had food from the guy's last meal. we knew we had it. it was the first time all of the pieces of the puzzle fit together perfectly. >> c-span: what about a movie? >> guest: i hope so. it has been optioned for screen. fingers crossed. >> c-span: for a writer like you, and all three are options,
>> guest: for two guys trying to figure out why a man like joseph bannister was headed for the soft landing and had it made risked so much. this idea started speaking louder and louder. this guy had to become intoxicated with this idea of freedom and total equality and you only answer to yourself. >> c-span: how big was the ship? >> guest: 100 feet long, 30 n cannons and a crew of a hundred. mostly made of wood and iron as well.
>> c-span: how did joseph bannister die? >> guest: according to official accounts, they tracked him down to the mosquito coast where after a brief battle they took him, and some of his men prisoner, and sailed them back to port royal. but when they got near port royal, rather than charging them and putting them on trial, they hunged joseph bannister from the yard arm of one of the royalships and tied down the body and put it into the sea. they don't believe that. it seems too tidy. bannister humilitated the english government so they have a question on if that happened and if he didn't go on to further rampages. >> c-span: what do the british do about bannister now? >> guest: they stopped talking about him in the 1680s after the
story ended. that makes sense. there is a lot of correspondence from jamaica saying he was an embarrassment. >> c-span: they were suffearchi for golden fleece the ship and how deep did they expect to be? >> guest: history said 230 feet. there were people just six months after the battle that saw the wreck and described what they could find on top. muskets on top and it would be in 24 feet of water so that was a very important clue and one that made it seem like it should be easy. >> c-span: how deep was it? >> guest: 24 feet. >> c-span: where did they find it? >> guest: on the north coast of the dominican republic. it is one of the most beautiful places but is almost invisible.
when you see the island where he really went you know you are dealing with a great pirate. not just a good one. they found the ship buried under four feet of mud and silt and a fresh water stream over the so the entire hull is in tact and looks like a pirate ship. tens of thousands of artifacts. you saw the beads and that is where they were woven into their beards to terrify their prey. >> c-span: how many people were looking for it once they found it? >> guest: originally just these guys but once the word got out that the shipwreck might be discovered other treasure hunting outfits appeared on the scene. they didn't admit what they were looking for but it seemed obvious given where they were anchored and where they showed up. >> c-span: what happened once it was found? >> guest: there is a big celebration and a salvage
begins. that is where the dominican republic sends an official to watch every bead even coming up to make sure it is catalog. then they put the ship back where it lay originally. >> c-span: would they take it out of the water? >> guest: no, that would ruin it. they are all about history. in my experience, they care about preserving it. it is buried again under the mud and you would never know it is there. >> c-span: are they still working on it? >> guest: no, it is back under. you can see swimmers, tourist, and fishermen going over it having no idea they are settled over history. >> c-span: is there a lot of video? >> guest: there is video but it
isn't the kind we might make. it is video where they are preserving things so you see tape measures and strings. it is about distances. not as beautiful as me might shoot it. >> c-span: i always ask you about the next book. this one took eight years. >> guest: i got to it about three and a half years ago. i was doing screen writing and investigating other projects. since i started working on the book i compare myself to a treasurer hunter in a way. it takes time to find the real thing. these guys went a long time between theirs and as part of the job i have to get used to it taking a while. >> c-span: when did you finish the book? >> guest: about a year ago and then it knows to final editing and promotion. >> c-span: are you on to your
next book? >> guest: i have things i'm looking at. nothing i'm ready to admit. >> c-span: do you admit what you are looking on? >> guest: not in the early days because the ideas fizzle out and i don't want to get too excited or others too interested before i decide. >> c-span: what kind of lawyer is your wife? >> guest: government work in chicago. zoning and lobbying. >> c-span: how would are your kids? >> guest: i have a 13 year old and a 9 year old boy. >> c-span: are they into stories? >> guest: they are great stories. i took them on my book tour. >> c-span: what do they tell you?
>> guest: they talk about what happened at school and make up stories as well. >> c-span: what is the moral of this story of robert kurson? >> guest: i think for me it is to stay at something and don't settle at being unhappy. i wasn't having a good time as a lawyer and figured this isn't how i want to spend the 50 rest of the years of my life. where -- i believed in myself. i had a feeling even in high school that i would be okay and that sees me through. >> c-span: have you been back to your high school? >> guest: i went back a couple times. they made me alumni of the year
so my picture is next to people that deserve it there. >> c-span: what is writing life like? >> guest: in a lot of ways it is a dream life because i get to go on adventures and stay a few years and then move on to another world. it is lonely in other ways. i work by myself. i eat lunch by myself every day. i miss the days when i was in an office and could round occupy -- up people and have a bite to eat. >> c-span: you can go to google and find the esquire article. "shadow divers" first book, "crashing through" second book, and the third book, "pirate hunters: treasure, obsession, and the search for a legendary pirate ship" robert kurson, thank you very much. >> guest: thank you so much.